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  • Hawg's directions

    So, let me start by saying it has been a long time since I have been on here. Hard times hit and had to sell my Shovelhead. I'd log on now and again, but eventually drifted away. Years passed, picked up a 78 fxe and I am back. Went to the FAQ section to look up Hawgs directions to time the engine. It's there, but the link he posted won't open. Can someone please walk me through real quick? Running a Dyna duel fire. I remember he had the TDC line on one side or the other of timing hole. Appreciate your time.

  • #2
    I can't help with the timing but welcome back.

    Congrats on passing through the hard times and getting another shovel.
    1977 FXE (Muttley)
    1981 FLT (Rus'T')
    1998 Honda Helix
    2004 Road King Classic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mad Matt View Post
      So, let me start by saying it has been a long time since I have been on here. Hard times hit and had to sell my Shovelhead. I'd log on now and again, but eventually drifted away. Years passed, picked up a 78 fxe and I am back. Went to the FAQ section to look up Hawgs directions to time the engine. It's there, but the link he posted won't open. Can someone please walk me through real quick? Running a Dyna duel fire. I remember he had the TDC line on one side or the other of timing hole. Appreciate your time.
      start here and you may well find it

      https://f88773fdccdd-004278.vbulleti...ptions/page867
      Survivor--SF-2 * SF-3 * SF-4 * SF-8

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      • #4
        the line just entering the timing plug hole will get you in the ballpark.
        from what i remember.

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        • #5
          Welcome Back

          here i saved this


          Here is static timing for points on a '70 and up Shovel in a nutshell:

          First, set you point gap to .018". Check it on both point cam lobes...the closer you can get it to equal the better, but the factory spec is within .004 of each other (but you can get it within .001" if you take the time to fully center the advance assembly on the end of the cam).

          Once the point gap is correct, bring the FRONT cylinder up on it's compression stroke...if you aren't sure, you can be sure by collapsing the front intake valve pushrod cover and watching the lifter...as you're pushing the engine through, that lifter will come up as the intake valve is opening...then it will go down as the valve is closing...when it's down, your front cylinder is coming up on it's compression stroke. Stop there!

          Look in the timing hole on the primary side of the bike (remove the plug first!)....VERY slowly, bump the engine over a bit with the kicker (or put the rear wheel off the ground and with the bike in high gear use the wheel to move the engine)...you are looking for the TDC mark on your flywheels (stock flywheels up through early 1980 have a small drilled dot low in the timing hole for the TDC mark and a vertical line for the advance mark....after early 1980 the factory changed the TDC mark to the vertical line...how's that for STUPID...also, the early flywheels have another larger drilled dot up higher in the hole...that's the REAR cylinder advance mark...don't confuse it with the small, low dot)...when you do find the TDC mark, position it so it's JUST inside of the timing hole...you want the back edge of the TDC mark touching the back edge of the timing hole, understand?

          OK, no go back around to the points. Connect a 12 volt DC volt meter with the negative lead to a good ground and the positive lead to the wiring terminal on the points....or use a simple test lamp wired up between a ground and the points. Turn on your ignition switch. When the points are OPEN, the meter will register 12 volts or the test lamp will light. When the points are closed, your meter will zero out or the lamp will go off.

          You want to set the points plate so the points are JUST BARELY beginning to open at the leading edge of the narrow lobe on your points cam. Turning the plate counterclockwise retards the timing, turning it clockwise advances it. As a starting point, loosen the ignition plate screws and turn the plate ALL the way counterclockwise so it's fully retarded and the points are closed (no voltage at meter or test lamp is off)...slowly turn it back clockwise until the very instant the meter shows battery voltage or the test lamp lights...STOP!! You want the points to BARELY be opening...so little that you almost can't "see" it...but you'll know they're open because of the meter or test lamp energizing. Lock the plate down. If you get it just right, you'll be able to just touch the top point with your fingertip and make the meter or light go off, then come back on as soon as you remove your finger.

          Verify that the flywheels didn't shift, the TDC mark is still in the leading edge of the timing hole...all set. Put the timing plug back in, put the point cover back on...have fun.

          Print this out and follow it step by step.

          There is another method, to static time your bike in the "advance" position...but that's a lesson for later. First master this, then we can go discuss it more at a later date.
          __________________
          Click to visit Hawg Ryder's All HD Tech Hompage http://www.hawgryder.com
          Welcome to Hawg Ryder's
          www.hawgryder.com
          Welcome to Hawg Ryder's All HD Tech Forum homepage!! THE site for ALL HD riders, new or old, man or woman, rat bike or show!! This site is for YOU!!!

          Electronic ignition with mechanical advance static timing

          You can static time it just like points. I'm too tired to look up the wiring diagram, but I think there's a blue wire that goes from your module to the negative side of the coil (the coil has two terminals...one is 12 volts from your ignition switch...that post typically has two wires to it, since it also powers up the module....the other one is triggered by a single wire from the module).

          Anyway, once you figure out what side of your coil is what....connect a test lamp or a volt meter from ground to the negative wire on your coil. Keep in mind, whenever the lamp or meter is energized, your ignition is tripped, same as when the points are open....when the light or meter is off, it's the same as when the points are closed.

          Bring your front cylinder up on a compression stroke and line up your retard timing mark in the timing hole. Turn on the ignition key. Loosen your ignition plate and turn it all the way counterclockwise to fully retard it...the meter/lamp should be off at this time...slowly turn the plate clockwise until the VERY INSTANT you see the light come on or the meter register battery voltage. STOP! That's it...lock it down.

          That's basic static timing in a nutshell. Now, here's the advanced lesson that will describe how to set up your ignition and set the ADVANCED timing using the static method. Much more accurate for road conditions (sure glad I save this stuff so I don't have to re-type it every dang time.

          First thing you have to do is remove the ignition timing plate from the engine....I want you to drill a 3/8" hole in the dang thing, halfway between the outer edge of the plate and the edge of the big hole in the middle of that plate where the timing cam sticks through. On a point ignition, this is generally in the 7 o’clock position....the idea is to be able to access the advance weights when the timing plate is installed in the cone. (Note: while you have the plate off, take a REAL close look at the advance assembly...if the holes in the weights where they set on the pins are worn, oblong in shape, you MUST replace the weights and springs...once they get worn, they will advance too far and this will effect the retard setting and starting).

          When the plate is back in the cone, if you look through that hole ya' just drilled you'll see the advance weights. By inserting a scribe or small screwdriver through that hole, you can open the advance weight outward, causing the advance assembly to "advance"....get my drift? This way, when you are static timing the module, you can hold the ignition rotor in the full advance position as you static time...instead of static timing in the retard mode, which is not as accurate.

          Now you're ready to time it....remove the timing plug from the engine case and bring the front cylinder up on a compression stroke...line up the FRONT ADVANCE timing mark in the timing hole. Leave it there...
          There are two connections at the coil. One is 12 volts from the ignition switch...the other is the ignition trigger wire from the ignition unit. You want to connect the positive lead from a DC meter or 12 volt test lamp to the (-) coil terminal, the one that has the wire from the ignition unit connected to it. Connect the other meter or test lamp lead to a good ground on then frame or engine.

          Loosen the standoffs that secure the timing plate in the cone...turn it all the way counterclockwise (this is fully retarded and it's where you should start)...leave the plate loose, you're gonna' be turning it in a second.


          Turn on the ignition switch....the meter should read zero volts or the test lamp should be "off", as the ignition is closed and current is flowing through the coil to the ground connection through the module....keep in mind that when the module field is broken by the timing rotor, it will open that contact to ground and stop the current flow through the coil...that exact second is when the plug will fire...this is no different than when points open, except points are mechanical and that module is electronic...they still do the exact same thing. And when that switch is open and current flow stops, the meter will register 12 volts or the test lamp will light up...

          OK, ready now? You've turned on the key and the meter ain't reading any voltage...here's the tricky part, but you can do it with only two hands. Put the screwdriver in through that hole you drilled and push the advance weight outboard, so the timing rotor is fully advanced. Hold it there while you use your other hand to slowly rotate the timing plate clockwise....keep rotating it until the exact instant the meter registers (or the light comes on). STOP! That's it....lock the plate down.

          What you want to do is have it set up so that when the plate is locked down and the front advance timing mark is lined up in the timing hole, you can push the advance weight outboard and fully advance the rotor...and when that rotor is fully advanced, the meter registers or the test light goes on...and the second you let off the advance unit, the meter or light goes off.

          That is static timing and you can get it just as exact as any timing light. More exact in some instances. And as an added bonus, with that little hole in the timing plate you can roll the engine over and see the advance weight mounts...and occasionally squirt your favorite teflon lubricant through that hole to keep the weights in good shape!
          __________________
          Click to visit Hawg Ryder's All HD Tech Homepage http://www.hawgryder.com
          __________________
          Huntin' Fishin' And Lovin' Every Day
          Northwest Georgia
          1954FL ~ 1978FLH ~ 1997FXD

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mad Matt View Post
            Went to the FAQ section to look up Hawgs directions to time the engine.
            Who's Hawg?

            "LAME DOUCHE CANOE"
            "VAGINA"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mad Matt View Post
              So, let me start by saying it has been a long time since I have been on here. Hard times hit and had to sell my Shovelhead. I'd log on now and again, but eventually drifted away. Years passed, picked up a 78 fxe and I am back. Went to the FAQ section to look up Hawgs directions to time the engine. It's there, but the link he posted won't open. Can someone please walk me through real quick? Running a Dyna duel fire. I remember he had the TDC line on one side or the other of timing hole. Appreciate your time.
              If you are working with a Dyna S, DS6-1, with the mechanical advance, I can walk you through that, super easy.

              Jim
              High Point, NC

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